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Òåìà: Ðåòðî-ðàäèî - ðåãåíåðàòèâíûé íà ëàìïàõ #8

  1. #1
    Ìîäåðàòîð
    Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ
    23.10.2005
    Àäðåñ
    ßëòà
    Ñîîáùåíèé
    13,432

    Ðåòðî-ðàäèî - ðåãåíåðàòèâíûé íà ëàìïàõ #8

    Ïðîäîëæåíèå òåìû. Ñòàðàÿ òåìà ïî ññûëêå
    http://www.cqham.ru/forum/showthread...=1#post1549667
    Ñåðãåé sgk.

  2. Ñïàñèáî îò Ventil


  3. #2
    Àâàòàð äëÿ IG_58
    Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ
    27.10.2012
    Àäðåñ
    Ãåðìàíèÿ
    Ñîîáùåíèé
    13,009
    Çàïèñåé â äíåâíèêå
    18
    Âîò èíòåðåñíûé ìàòåðèàë îòíîñèòåëüíî òîãî, êàêèì îáðàçîì ìîæíî áûëî áû îïðåäåëèòü íîìèíàëû ðåçèñòîðà è êîíäåíñàòîðà "ãðèäëèêà":

    Ñêðûòûé òåêñò

    Here's how I determine the values for the grid capacitor and leak resistor for the regenerative detector -

    1. Make the value of the grid capacitor (condenser) around ten times the total input capacitance of the tube grid (grid to plate plus grid to cathode). This makes the impedance of the capacitor, at the carrier frequency, small in comparison with that of the grid.

    2. The time constant of the grid leak and condenser should be no greater than one fifth of the period of the highest modulating frequency to be reproduced, in order for the grid voltage to follow the modulation envelope quickly enough to not reduce the amplitude and distort the waveform of the recovered modulating frequency excessively.

    Using these guidelines, the values can be determined:

    1. Choose the condenser value:
    For example, the grid input capacitance of tube type '01A is published as very close to 11 pF. So, 10 x 11 = 110 pF. The closest common value is 100 pF, it will work perfectly well here.

    2. Calculate the maximum value for the grid leak:
    If the highest modulating frequency to be reasonably well reproduced is say, 3500 Hz, then 1/3500 = 286 uS. 286/5 = 57 uS. 57 uS divided by 100 pF = 571,429 ohms as the maximum for the grid leak. The closest standard 10% value is 560 k.

    So, 100 pF for the condenser and 560 k ohms for the grid leak are suggested, in the example case given.

    Of course, experimentation with values up to two or three times higher and lower may be appealing so as to develop a feel for the effect they may have on the audio, regeneration control, sensitivity, etc.

    http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/...60023&start=20


    Êðàòêîå ñîäåðæàíèå, ñóòü:
    1. Âåëè÷èíà åìêîñòè îðèåíòèðîâî÷íî â 10 ðàç âûøå, ÷åì ñóììàðíàÿ åìêîñòü (ñåòêà-êàòîä + ñåòêà-àíîä) ëàìïû.
    2. Âåëè÷èíà ñîïðîòèâëåíèÿ âûáèðàåòñÿ èñõîäÿ èç ïîñòîÿííîé âðåìåíè RC-öåïî÷êè ãðèäëèêà, êîòîðàÿ äîëæíà ñîñòàâëÿòü íå áîëåå îäíîé ïÿòîé ïåðèîäà ìàêñèìàëüíîé ÷àñòîòû ìîäóëÿöèè.

    Ïðèìåð:
    1. Äëÿ ëàìïû 6Æ8 åìêîñòü ãðèäëèêà ñîñòàâëÿåò ïðèìåðíî 10 õ (6 + 7) = 130 ïô.
    2. Äëÿ ýòîé æå ëàìïû è
    ìàêñèìàëüíîé ÷àñòîòû ìîäóëÿöèè 6êÃö (ïåðèîä = 1/6000 = 167ìêñ, îäíà ïÿòàÿ áóäåò 33ìÊñ, äåëèì íà åìêîñòü 130 ïô, ïîëó÷àåì ìàêñèìóì 254 êÎì.
    Ýòî òå îðèåíòèðîâî÷íûå çíà÷åíèÿ, ñ êîòîðûõ íóæíî íà÷èíàòü, à ïðàêòè÷åñêîå èçìåíåíèå ýòèõ ïàðàìåòðîâ â 2-3 ðàçà òóäà-ñþäà ïîäñêàæåò, êàê ïîëó÷èòñÿ ëó÷øå.
    Ïîñëåäíèé ðàç ðåäàêòèðîâàëîñü sgk; 28.07.2018 â 10:26. Ïðè÷èíà: ßçûê ôîðóìà ðóññêèé.
    Èãîðü

  4. Ñïàñèáî îò Boris.., Gorlo_A, Hans03, NIC49, olegau, Stalker, wolf1605

  5. #3
    Ïðè ìàêåòèðîâàíèè ìîæíî èñïîëüçîâàòü íàáîð åìêîñòåé è ñîïðîòèâëåíèé, êîììóòèðîâàòü äæàìïåðàìè â ëþáîé êîìáèíàöèè. È ïðîáîâàòü ïðè ðàçëè÷íûõ ðåæèìàõ êàñêàäà.

  6. #4
    æèâó çäåñü Àâàòàð äëÿ RA4UKJ
    Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ
    20.08.2010
    Àäðåñ
    Ìîðäîâèÿ, ã. Ñàðàíñê
    Ñîîáùåíèé
    722
    Çàïèñåé â äíåâíèêå
    20
    Ïîçûâíîé
    RA4UKJ
    Ïîçäðàâëÿþ âñåõ ñ 8 âåòêîé òåìû!
    è äíåì ÂÌÔ
    Ñåðãåé ra4ukj@gmail.com

  7. Ñïàñèáî îò hamster, Henriks.V, IG_58, long, mmom, NIC49, svoy 3000

  8. #5
    Ìîäåðàòîð
    Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ
    23.10.2005
    Àäðåñ
    ßëòà
    Ñîîáùåíèé
    13,432

    Ëàìïà, íåñòàíäàðòíîå ïèòàíèå

    Ñîîáùåíèÿ ðàíåå îá îòáîðå ëàìï
    http://www.cqham.ru/forum/showthread...=1#post1549611
    http://www.cqham.ru/forum/showthread...=1#post1549650
    äëÿ ðàáîòû â ñõåìå ðåãåíåðàòîðà ñ "áàòàðåéíûì" ïèòàíèåì. Ïîä áàòàðåéíûì íàïðÿæåíèåì ïîíèìàåòñÿ 12,6  íàïðÿæåíèå àêêóìóëÿòîðà èç äâóõ áàíîê ïî 6,3 Â. Îñòàâøèåñÿ 6 ëàìï 6Æ1Ï ïðîâåðèë ïðè íàïðÿæåíèè àíîäíîé öåïè 21  - 26 Â.  ðåçóëüòàòå 4-ðå ëàìïû çàðàáîòàëè â ñõåìå ðåãåíåðàòîðà (èíäóêòèâíàÿ òð¸õòî÷êà) íî ñî ñìåùåíèåì 0,1  èëè âûøå íà ïåðâóþ ñåòêó. Äâå ëàìïû íå çàðàáîòàëè. Ïîïðîáîâàë äëÿ ñõåìû ðåãåíåðàòîðà ëàìïû 6Æ52Ï. Îäíà èç ëàìï çàðàáîòàëà ïðè àíîäíîì +26  è ñìåùåíèè 0,1  íà ïåðâîé ñåòêå.  îáùåì ïðèîáðåòåíèå Á/Ó ëàìï íà ðûíêå äëÿ ðàáîòû ñ íèçêèì àíîäíûì íàïðÿæåíèåì ëîòåðåÿ, ïîâåç¸ò èëè íå ïîâåç¸ò.
    Ñåðãåé sgk.

  9. #6
    Àâàòàð äëÿ IG_58
    Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ
    27.10.2012
    Àäðåñ
    Ãåðìàíèÿ
    Ñîîáùåíèé
    13,009
    Çàïèñåé â äíåâíèêå
    18
    Öèòàòà Ñîîáùåíèå îò sgk Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
    ïðèîáðåòåíèå Á/Ó ëàìï íà ðûíêå äëÿ ðàáîòû ñ íèçêèì àíîäíûì íàïðÿæåíèåì ëîòåðåÿ, ïîâåç¸ò èëè íå ïîâåç¸ò.
    Ìîæåò áûòü, èìååò ñìûñë íå èãðàòü â ëîòåðåþ, à òàê ïîâûñèòü àíîäíîå íàïðÿæåíèå, ÷òîáû ëàìïà íàäåæíî çàâîäèëàñü?
    Èãîðü

  10. Ñïàñèáî îò Boris.., long, NIC49

  11. #7
    Öèòàòà Ñîîáùåíèå îò sgk Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
    Îäíà èç ëàìï çàðàáîòàëà ïðè àíîäíîì +26 Â
    - ó ìíîãèõ ëàìï (íàïðèìåð 6æ7 ) óêàçàí ðåæèì àíîäíîãî 26 âîëüò íå ïðîáîâàëè?

  12. #8
    Àâàòàð äëÿ Boris..
    Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ
    17.08.2013
    Àäðåñ
    Czechy, JO70AQ
    Ñîîáùåíèé
    2,012
    Çàïèñåé â äíåâíèêå
    1
    Ïîçûâíîé
    OK9ZBA
    Öèòàòà Ñîîáùåíèå îò IG_58 Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
    Ìîæåò áûòü, èìååò ñìûñë íå èãðàòü â ëîòåðåþ, à òàê ïîâûñèòü àíîäíîå íàïðÿæåíèå, ÷òîáû ëàìïà íàäåæíî çàâîäèëàñü?
    ÿ òîæå íå ïîíèìàþ ñìûñëà èñïîëüçîâàòü íèçêîå àíîäíîå íàïðÿæåíèå. Çà÷åì?
    Âðåìÿ, ïîòðà÷åííîå íà èçûñêàíèÿ "áóäåò-íå áóäåò ðàáîòàòü" ëàìïà ïðè íèçêîì àíîäíîì ëó÷øå èñïîëüçîâàòü íà ñîçäàíèå ïðèëè÷íîãî ëàìïîâîãî ÁÏ íà ïàñïîðòíûå çíà÷åíèÿ àíîäíîãî íàïðÿæåíèÿ.

  13. Ñïàñèáî îò standby

  14. #9
    Êîãäà òî çàäàâàëñÿ âîïðîñ - áûëè ëè ïðîìûøëåííûå îáðàçöû ïðèáîðîâ ñ íèçêèì àíîäíûì. Åñòü ÈÐÊ-2 - Èñïûòàòåëü ðàäèîêîìïàñîâ, ïèòàåòñÿ îò áîðòñåòè àâèàòàõíèêè 27  +- 10%.  íåì Ä - Ñ Â× ãåíåðàòîð ñ ìîäóëÿòîðîì íà äâóõ ïàëü÷èêîâûõ ëàìïàõ, óìôîðìåðà íåò, àíîäíîå - 27 Â. Ïðèáîð èìååòñÿ, ÒÎ íåò, äîáåðóñü - ïîñìîòðþ, êàêèå ëàìïû.


  15. #10
    Ìîäåðàòîð
    Ðåãèñòðàöèÿ
    23.10.2005
    Àäðåñ
    ßëòà
    Ñîîáùåíèé
    13,432
    Öèòàòà Ñîîáùåíèå îò IG_58 Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
    òàê ïîâûñèòü àíîäíîå íàïðÿæåíèå, ÷òîáû ëàìïà íàäåæíî çàâîäèëàñü?
    Öèòàòà Ñîîáùåíèå îò Boris.. Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
    ÿ òîæå íå ïîíèìàþ ñìûñëà èñïîëüçîâàòü íèçêîå àíîäíîå íàïðÿæåíèå. Çà÷åì?
    Êðîìå ïðîñòî ëþáîïûòñòâà ïðè êàêîì àíîäíîì íàïðÿæåíèè ìîæåò ðàáîòàòü ëàìïà â ñõåìå ðåãåíåðàòîðà äëÿ ýòîãî ñïåöèàëüíî íå ïðåäíàçíà÷åííàÿ, åñòü æåëàíèå çàïèòàòü ñõåìó îò USB ïîðòà íîóòáóêà. Ýòî 5  áåç êàêèõ ëèáî ïðåîáðàçîâàòåëåé.
    Öèòàòà Ñîîáùåíèå îò UR5VFT Ïîñìîòðåòü ñîîáùåíèå
    - ó ìíîãèõ ëàìï (íàïðèìåð 6æ7 ) óêàçàí ðåæèì àíîäíîãî 26 âîëüò íå ïðîáîâàëè?
    Òàêîé ëàìïû íåò, íà ðàäèîðûíêå ëàìïû ýòîé ñåðèè áûëè òàêèå ðæàâûå ÷òî ïîêóïàòü íå ñòàë. Ïðè ñëó÷àå è íàëè÷èè ðàáî÷åé ëàìïû ïðîâåðþ. Ïîêà ðåçóëüòàòû òàêèå: íàïðÿæåíèå íàêàëà 5  (íàïðÿæåíèå â ñëó÷àå ïèòàíèÿ îò USB) íåêîòîðûå ëàìïû 6Í1Ï ðàáîòàþ ïðè àíîäíîì 10-12  è íóâèñòîðû 6Ñ52Í. Ëàìïà 6Í23Ï ðàáîòàåò îò 0,5  àíîäíîãî è íàêàëüíîì 5 Â. Íðàâèòñÿ ëàìïà 6Æ1Ï èç-çà "ìåíüøåãî" òîêà íàêàëà (0,17 À) â ñðàâíåíèè ñ 6Í23Ï. Íî íå ìîãó çàñòàâèòü ðàáîòàòü ýòîò ýêçåìïëÿð ïðè 5  àíîäíîãî. Ðàáîòàåò ïðè 5,8  àíîäíîãî è ïîëîæèòåëüíîì ñìåùåíèè íà ïåðâóþ ñåòêó. Íàêàë 5 Â.
    Íàæìèòå íà èçîáðàæåíèå äëÿ óâåëè÷åíèÿ. 

Íàçâàíèå:	6Æ1Ï 5_8 Â ïèòàíèÿ íà àíîäå ëàìïû.png 
Ïðîñìîòðîâ:	1774 
Ðàçìåð:	16.3 Êá 
ID:	293448
    Ñåðãåé sgk.

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